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Thread: Redirect "ideas and suggestions" chatroom on Discord to this forum

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    Redirect "ideas and suggestions" chatroom on Discord to this forum

    A lot of players have complained that ideas and suggestions are not taken seriously. I think it would be easier for any ideas to be considered if they were all discussed here. A chat room really is not a good place for that for many reasons. It becomes a place to vent and impulsively complain or post ideas that haven't been thought through very well. If it's an idea worth considering, the submitter should be willing to put at least enough effort to come to this forum and submit a thread.

    The chat room creates ambiguity as to where the proper place to submit suggestions are. Rohime might agree:


    I know these suggestions go to Rohime and not the owner of the Discord server, but let's put this here to start the discussion on what is to be done.

    I want ideas to be taken seriously as much as anyone. Let's make it happen.

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    Addenda: Discussing and brainstorming ideas is good, before it goes onto a forum. I think ideas are great to be chatted about, and forum threads are great for submitting concrete proposals or suggestions.

    Ideas can also be brainstormed in forum threads as an alternative to a given suggestion.

    Would recommend this be a discord server rule or part of some prominent discord server FAQ that concrete suggestions be directed here to this forum. It's unacceptable that the community feels that they are not being heard. I would not blame Rohime (or anyone) for this. But it's time we fix it, and demanding that someone else become a developer won't fix it if a poorly made suggestion process is the real issue at hand.

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    FVZ Today at 12:59 AM
    nuzz did you notice the pinned message?
    actually yes you even mentioned it in your post

    FVZ Today at 1:01 AM
    Your suggestion is already in place and there have been many suggestions in the past posted on the forum which didnt get as much attention or reponse from rohime as the community would have liked to see

    Wheme Today at 1:19 AM
    Nuzz
    We post suggestions on the forums still...
    Rohime still says nothing
    Nuzz Today at 2:30 AM
    @FVZ @Wheme

    It's a nice thought but I don't agree that it is already in place and here's why:

    1) Rohime himself expressed frustration at the signal to noise ratio given the 1.7k messages in the channel. Clear acknowledgement that things aren't organized enough. It will take a bit more than single pinned message to make it clear to the community the best way to propose changes. Until then we can't expect these half-measures to restore the community's confidence in the developer and restore the developer's confidence in the community.

    2) A pinned message can easily be missed, as you must click a rather small icon to see it. Many people do not bother to do this unless they may be searching for some kind of FAQ or saved links, which one wouldn't expect to find in a channel labelled "ideas-and-changes-discussion". I might instead suggest expanding the pinned message and elaborating on the difference between an idea and a proposal, and have clear guidelines and recommendations on best practices for each. Then that would be located in the #rules or a #faq channel of some sort, which is guaranteed to be read by any sensible user.

    3) I know the status quo isn't working, there's proof of it. I'm experienced in these matters, and have high degree of confidence that this is the first step to fixing it, and also a high degree of confidence that this hasn't been implemented properly, otherwise there would be evidence of it. That evidence being that suggestions are being responded to or implemented by the developer.(edited)
    .
    These discussions will be lost in the ether too after a few days/pages of being scrolled up. We won't be able to easily see these responses unless we happen upon them or know exactly where/when to search for in this channel. That doesn't really work out too well in the long run. Discord's reaction emojis such as "thinking" may make the kids happy but the platform is not a magic bullet for all things. I'll copy these responses into the forum thread, but in the future it might just be easier for all of us if we discuss something that's on the forum by replying in the forum.

    I'll even write the FAQ/Guidelines myself to save Wheme the trouble if that's what it takes. I know my word doesn't mean much around here anymore but I'm trying to help the game. Not to help the people who play it, but to help those who wanted to play/like it but couldn't because of whatever issues they had with it.



    GW2 > PVZ2Today at 2:32 AM
    i cant think of anyone else that would write 4 paragraphs kek
    Hmm..... Maybe he's on to something

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    FVZ Today at 2:54 AM
    I think the current system works great. I created this channel 2 weeks ago, we had a lot of discussions, in the end wheme posted it on the forum and nothing happened since then.
    Nuzz Today at 2:58 AM

    @Rohime what are your thoughts on this post? http://www.arcade.sc/threads/12615-S...dable-Abilties Did you miss it?

    My reaction to this is that it looks like a big change and Rohime might not have done enough recent updates to suddenly jump into one as large as this. What should he have said if that were the case? "Sorry but I don't know the best course of action"?

    So I wouldn't be too quick to say that he's not open to any suggestions. Are there any recent suggestions for small changes?
    Quoted above

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    Nuzz you really are something else.

    You scrolled all the way up to see Rohime asking us to make a forum post. But you didn't check the date of the comment nor when was the post made. You'd see that we did exactly what he did and it was pointless, just like this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunset View Post
    Nuzz you really are something else.

    You scrolled all the way up to see Rohime asking us to make a forum post. But you didn't check the date of the comment nor when was the post made. You'd see that we did exactly what he did and it was pointless, just like this post.
    You should maybe check something called "pinned messages"
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    Good idea Nuzz. Personally I feel like there are a mountain of suggestions/ideas that need to be flesh out and to expect Rohime to read through each one and/or expect him to implement them is just not practical. Plus, I'm not a coder here, but I would imagine the time to implement any meaningful change would be very long.

    Before we go in too deep, we should assign a person or a small group as part of the "suggestion team". Where they read/debate changes with the community then after awhile, present it in a short and concise way to Rohime. Sort of like the council where Rohime turns to when discussing abuse.

    I think Nuzz or FVZ would be good for that role. Both are active on here and discord and have a solid understanding of the game. The community would then bombard you with suggestions and you would sort them out then shorten them so Rohime doesn't need to read the back and forth discussion.

    tl;dr: game council would discuss changes and engage the community. After arriving at a consensus, they then talk to Rohime about it or make an official post.

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    Nuzz Today at 10:09 AM

    Ideas are dime a dozen, selling an idea takes skill and a great execution of the idea takes talent and discipline. I dont know if I have the last ones anymore. Rohime has kept the map safe and alive for all this time. He may not be an uber great designer to the point of turning it back into #1 map. But who is?

    He deserves more credit than he gets and he has his reasons for maintaining the status quo. Putting in a ton of effort and potentially making things worse or not being thanked even if successful is not very motivating of a thought. Strictly keeping the bullshit out of the game design discussion rooms also fundamentally shifts the chat that the devs deal with, to one that they want to see vs one that makes them cringe (and therefore not care as much about helping)

    Not everyone will see that but that's the dev mindset in general. If you don't agree, in general, think of an alternative before just saying something won't work as that is almost always going to be a distraction unless backed up by good evidence.
    Quoted above from Discord.

    I'll also point out again for the record that from what I've seen, Sunset tries to find a reason to derail ideas, or frankly anything that appears to be a threat to the status quo (e.g. having the satisfaction of successfully hindering the development of the game, bringing more players in, etc).

    I've also heard rumors that some of the people in that clique want a different developer altogether. If they have thoughts of manipulating people, facts, or discussions with the intent to chip away at Team Rohime's credibility, then my advice to them is to tread carefully.

    Having serious game design discussion preferably taking place here on the forum is going to greatly limit their ability to do this, so it is no surprise that those specific people are also opposed to this. Discord Moderator Marcus agreed for the betterment of the game to have more strict moderation of the "suggestions" section in Discord (specifically no drama or trolling allowed). And again, those same people raised hell. Probably best to question their intentions at this point.
    Last edited by Nuzz; 09-11-2018 at 07:16 PM.

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    I heavily agree with this. The main problem with suggestions on discord is that they often get drowned out by memeing or random pepe faces which means things can't be properly discussed, and if they do miraculously get discussed, that discussion is hidden behind a carpal tunnel inducing level of scrolling. Moving all suggestions here to the forums would make the forums a lot more active which helps the community a lot and also improves the quality of suggestions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aristocat View Post
    I heavily agree with this. The main problem with suggestions on discord is that they often get drowned out by memeing or random pepe faces which means things can't be properly discussed, and if they do miraculously get discussed, that discussion is hidden behind a carpal tunnel inducing level of scrolling. Moving all suggestions here to the forums would make the forums a lot more active which helps the community a lot and also improves the quality of suggestions.
    Discord suggestions get brought over to the forums when they are finished already and we have recently organized the discord to keep suggestions separate from spam.
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